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I might point out that the Project Magnet that I was associated with, which received a great deal of publicity, was not an official Government project. It was a project that I talked the Deputy Minister into letting me carry out, making use of the extensive field organization of the Department of Transport. No funds were spent on it and we merely had access to a very large field organization and opened a number of files. Unfortunately, the gentlemen of the press climbed on this and made a big deal out of it. As a matter of fact, some of the headlines concerning Project Magnet were set in larger type than the declaration of war. However, we carried the project through officially for about four years, and the last year of the four we had a little shed set up in which we had a number of instruments, the idea being to try and coordinate sightings with scientific measurements. We had equipment for detecting any radio noise that might emanate from these objects, any gravitational disturbances which might result, any radioactivity which might be connected with it, and any magnetic disturbances. These four instruments were of a recording type, and produced graphical lines on a recording tape in a four-pen recorder. This ran 24 hours a day with an alarm circuit attached, so that in case any of the pens would go beyond a prescribed threshold, the horns would blow and the bells would ring and the boys in the nearby ionosphere station were supposed to come running to see if they could see anything. Toward the end of the year, we hadn't received anything of any great importance on the instruments.
We had been following up a number of contacts with these people from outside, so we arranged a special circuit, and one Sunday afternoon we asked them if they would bring a craft down close enough so that we could see if we got any indications. Unfortunately, the afternoon we chose was very heavily overcast, and so we were not able to get visual coordination although we did get a number of squiggles on our instruments. The craft that they sent down they said was about 80 feet long and about 14 feet in diameter and was a cigar shaped effort and was primarily for scientific observation. But for some reason or other, they didn't get it any closer to the earth than about 50 miles, so they wouldn't have been visible with the naked eye anyway. However, the gentlemen of the press apparently found out about our long distance telephone circuit. Anyway, they were out there in droves shortly after this experiment, and they made us so thoroughly annoyed that we simply closed the whole business down and went underground from there on, and that's where it still is as far as the gentlemen of the press are concerned.
However, we had been following up every lead we could find. Some of the leads led to dead ends. We found a tremendous amount of garbage. We found a number of contacts that we believed to be sincere. Our technique of handling the contacts was to ask a number of rather general type of questions. We asked the same questions of all the contacts and then we compared the answers. We found that in the majority of cases we got back exactly the same answers from all the contacts. We felt that since this was the case the contacts were probably authentic. In a few instances we got back answers which were completely inconsistent and we discarded those contacts. Maybe they were authentic but we just felt that we did not have enough confirmation to work on. So we confined our activities from there on to the contacts whose results we had been able to check. In following through our program of investigation we have always felt that an unconfirmed report of any kind was of interest only. If we could get an additional confirmation we figured that it had a better than a 50 percent probability of being correct. If we had two independent confirmations we rated it about 75 percent probably correct and so on. So that the material that I will be talking to you about a little later on is the result not of just one bit of information but the majority of it has been the result of three, four, five or sometimes even more independent transmittals of the same information. Now this information includes a great deal of philosophy, a good deal of, what you might say, human engineering and a great deal of science.
Being of a scientific background myself, my own interest was directed largely towards the scientific end. I wanted to know how these craft were built, what their motive power was, where they got the energy and how come they were able to do such interesting things that our craft were unable to do. Many of the questions that I asked when I had the opportunity to ask them, were along scientific lines. I will admit that I got back a great deal of information which was completely unintelligible. It sounded like a lot of double-talk. However, since we had previously established that the contacts from whom we were obtaining this information were probably authentic, we simply took the information down either in writing or on tape and we kept it for future reference and eventually we were able to get quite a bit out of it. There is a great deal that we have that we have not yet been able to decipher. I think the trouble is with us, not with the information. Much of the information which we obtained from these people, cast some serious doubts on the validity of some of the basic concepts of our science.
For one thing they told us that the velocity of light was not a constant. As a matter of fact they seemed to be rather pointed in their statements that light doesn't travel, it is. And we told them that from our point of view it appears to travel with a certain definite velocity of 186,000 miles per second. They said that's the way it looks to you because you are looking at it in and from a region having certain conditions, certain influences. But they said if you were to go away from this region, meaning the vicinity of the earth, you would find that a different set of figures prevail. Another thing they told us cast a great deal of doubt on our ideas of time. They told us that time wasn't at all what we thought it was, namely what might be marked off with the ticking of a clock - that time was, in fact, a field function, the result of there being a universe. That is, something which was derived from the basic primordial concepts which brought this universe into being, and that it differed as you went from one part of the universe to the other. Also it could be altered, sometimes by natural means, sometimes by intelligently controlled means in various parts of the universe. So that in any given interval, which incidentally is what our clocks mark off - our intervals, not chunks of time - in these intervals we can have all sorts of lengths of time. In other words, if one of you checks your clock with me and finds that they are synchronized and I climb into a flying saucer and take a little trip out well clear of this earth and I watch my clock and I come come back in, say, three hours time, and we again compare clocks, maybe your clock says I've been gone an hour, my clock says I've been gone three hours. Both clocks are strictly correct. You, in that given interval, in the time the big hand of the clock went around once, you experienced an hour. In that same interval between the ticks of the clock, I experienced three hours - and they were three real hours, not an illusion.
The theory of relativity talks about this dilation. But this leads to a paradox and I think that anyone who is at all mathematically inclined and has taken the trouble to look at the relativistic time paradox has probably been rather disturbed by it. According to the theory of relativity, if I climb into a spacecraft and I start out from the earth, here, at a velocity very nearly the velocity of light and I go out to, say, Alpha Proxima, and then I turn around and come back, people on the earth say I've been gone something like 10 years. According to my clock I've only been gone a year. Now that is a result, apparently, of the time dilation in the theory of relativity in that the spacecraft which I travel in, was moving relative to the earth at a velocity very nearly equal to the velocity of light. The paradox arises when you consider that relative to the spacecraft, the earth was traveling away at exactly the same velocity. Therefore, to the people on the spacecraft who are relatively stationary, 10 years should have passed and by the time the earth comes back to them, it should only have been away a year. So you can see right away the very premise upon which the theory of relativity is predicated, namely, that if A is relative to B, then B must be relative to A, leads you to an impossible paradox. This paradox is resolved completely if you recognize the variable nature of time. As you move around from one part of the universe to the other, you encounter all sorts of values of time in certain given intervals.
Now I find that this idea of the concept of the variable nature of time to be almost incomprehensible to most people because, as they say, a Swede is only a Norwegian with his brains beaten out. I think that that is what has happened to most of us. We were born with more intelligence than we have after we graduate from university because we've had it beaten out of us in the process. The very first thing that we learn when we are a very small child is that the feeding must be regulated by a clock. We don't know about a clock, but regardless of how we feel on the subject we still get the bottle at a certain particular time, and this carries on right through our conscious life. Every time we do something, we check with the clock. We become slaves to the clock to the extent that we believe that the intervals ticked out by the clock are time itself. So we find it very difficult to readjust. Now I don't propose to say any more about this particular aspect, but I would like to say something on the subject of the craft themselves.
We asked them how they were supported and they said they were supported on the earth's gravitational field. We asked them what the earth's gravitational field was and they said it was a complicated function, which has to do with the influences of the matter, the material which made up the planet which was producing the field. We did further studies on our own with occasional reference to these people from elsewhere, and we figured out what was really taking place, to the extent that we were able to go into the laboratory and conduct a series of experiments which proved beyond a doubt that this is true. Our laboratory experiments have allowed us to make about a one percent change in the weight of objects. We can make them about one percent heavier or one percent lighter. Now that is a long way from holding a spacecraft up because we have to go over a hundred percent in order to do that. But the fact that we can do it, the fact that the principles, which these people from outside gave us and guided us to finding out for ourselves, are valid, certainly indicates that, first, these people are what they say they are, second, that their technology is what they say it is, that it is superior to ours, that ours is inadequate in many respects.
Now I asked for a blackboard here tonight because I want to draw a very small diagram on here, which I think may throw a little light on how these bells are actually held up. Now the diagram is very simple -(draws on board). Those lines may be considered as the earth's gravitational field. This is not a strictly correct representation because a field is a dynamic function, not a static one. On here someplace is the centre. As you can see this is diverging outward. If we place any object in here, this object is subject to attraction from this virtual centre down here, on this side and this side, but this side is closer than this side, so that we have a net resultant force down this way. However if we bend this field, and we do this to it, this object now finds itself in a field the virtual centre of which is up here somewhere. So that the object, now, thinks that this is down and it proceeds to fall in that direction. Or if the field is bent until it is exactly parallel there is no resultant force on the object and it remains weightless. It is just that simple, and this is precisely what we have done in the laboratory, but because the fields around the earth are very, very intense, the fields which we have had available from our modern technology are most inadequate to do more than bend these fields by a very small amount, so that we have been able to bend the earth's field to fool the little weight into thinking that that was down instead of this being down.
Now we understand that these bells operate on that principle. Underneath the bells there are three things that people have referred to as landing gear. They're not landing gear at all, they're spheres within which a charged sphere is rotating, it is spinning on magnetic bearings. Magnetic bearings are something else which the boys from topside gave us the design of. It's very simple in section - (draws on board). This is the north pole and this is the south, and in it we have a thing which looks like this with a south and this with a north. They're just simply ferrite bearings permanently magnetized. We built them ourselves and checked them in the lab and they work perfectly. Very simple things. And the spheres carry a charge and they spin on this type of bearing down inside the big ball. And the tilt is just simply produced by rotating the sphere a little bit which bends the field. The process is much more complicated than would appear from what I'm telling you. This is the first step and the end result. Even though there are a lot of steps in between.
Now one other thing that I would like to mention, as far as I know, our group in Ottawa is the only group that has actually taken the information which was given to us by the boys topside and translated it into hardware that works. Much information has been given to us through various channels, but people just talk about it. They don't do anything about it and I think that is deplorable. I think when they give us information, the least we can do is to show our good faith by trying, at least, to convert the information into hardware. We have built two items of hardware on their instructions that I'm rather proud of. One of those pieces of hardware is a coil. It has a ferrite core and a trick winding on it. To look at it, it looks like a rather oddly wound inductor. When measured on a radio-frequency bridge, however, it shows some very peculiar properties. There are certain frequencies at which it is impossible to balance the r.f. bridge, and that is a direct contradiction to what any electrical engineer will tell you should happen with a coil of wire wound on a ferrite core. Now if we take this coil and we excite it with radio frequency energy at or near these critical frequencies, we find that energy goes into the coil and nothing comes out. It just disappears. As a matter of fact we had one coil about an inch in diameter and eight inches long and we poured a kilowatt into that coil for two hours from a kilowatt communications-type transmitter. The coil was in a two-inch brass tube with a plate welded on one end and a transmission line fitting on the other. We could find no radiation around the outside of that tube at all. In other words the energy went in; none came out. The information which we got from the boys topside was that we were actually making tenser energy, which is a six-dimensional radio wave, and it is a type of energy they use extensively for radio communications, transmission of power and for pushing and pulling. In fact they use it for just about everything that we can think of. We were not able to control this energy; we could just make it. We are hoping that later on we will be able to learn how to do it, but at the present time we are just not smart enough.
The other item that I'm rather proud of resulted from a series of questions that we asked regarding accidental destruction or damage to our aircraft by flying into the vicinity of a flying saucer. We were informed that although a few of our aircraft had come to an unfortunate end by what they considered the colossal stupidity of our pilots for flying into a region where the aircraft was bound to get into trouble, they said that they are now taking corrective measures, and whenever they see one of our aircraft about to commit suicide, they just get out of the way and give him a wide berth. I asked them what happened, and they said, well, the fields around the saucers, in order to hold them up, in order to produce the gravity differential, the time field differentials, which were necessary to operate the ships, these sometimes produced field combinations which reduced the strength of materials to the point where they were no longer strong enough to carry the loads that the materials were expected to carry. Now as we know, aircraft, particularly the military type aircraft, are built with a rather small factor of safety, and if they fly into a region of reduced binding, the materials are no longer strong enough to carry the load and the craft simply comes apart.
We asked a series of questions about whether it were possible for our craft to detect these regions so that we would not fly into them, and they said it certainly was and they would give us the design of an instrument which would do this very thing. They told us also that we, ourselves, were creating regions which were much more dangerous than the regions which they established because we could detect the presence of their craft and give them a wide berth, but we could not detect without instruments the presence of these vortices which we ourselves have produced. They gave us the design of the instrument which was fundamentally this: they said to select two materials, one stronger than the other, and they said to arrange so that these two materials pull against each other in such a manner that the weaker material was very near its breaking point and the strong material was a long way from its breaking point. On that basis, we devised an instrument and we built quite a number of them in the shop and sent them around to various people that we knew did quite a bit of traveling. We asked them if they would investigate the regions through which aircraft must have passed just prior to breaking up in mid-air. We have, unfortunately, a large record of our aeroplanes having done just this.
One of these unexplained crashes occurred at a place called Issoudon which is about 20 miles south and west of Quebec City, and we investigated the region through which this BOAC aircraft must have passed just prior to the crash. And sure enough, big as life and twice as natural, we found a very large and very strong vortex. Our instruments showed it beyond a doubt. It was about a thousand feet in diameter and roughly circular with a rather sharp line of demarcation at the edge of it.
You will recall also that about two years, three years ago, possibly a little longer, a jet aircraft crashed into a nunnery at Orleans, just out from Ottawa. It killed a number of people and did a great deal of damage. In fact, the jet engine itself was finally dug out of the subsoil about 30 feet below the foundation of the convent. We investigated that one again, we found a very strong vortex of reduced binding. We had a number of reports come in from the people in the field who found exactly the same thing. I wrote a very stiff memorandum to the appropriate people in my own department pointing out some of these facts. I did not state where we got the information. We simply stated that we had instruments which showed the existence of these regions of reduced binding, and suggested that something be done about it. The letter wound up on the crank file. I'm afraid that is the fate of most of these things, they wind up on the crank file. However, that does not in any way change the fact that these regions of reduced binding exist. People topside told us they existed, they gave us the design of instruments, we built the instruments, we have confirmed the facts.
There's one other little point that I would like to make in connection with these regions of reduced binding. That is, that the people from elsewhere told us that we make them when we set off a nuclear explosion. We make two of them. We make one of them in the vicinity of the nuclear explosion and one on the opposite side of the planet. Any of you who have ever seen pictures or facsimiles of a nuclear explosion have probably noticed that there is a column which is approximately uniform in diameter extending upwards from the region of the explosion, and that is capped by a big mushroom-shaped cloud. That shape, that fact itself should have been sufficient warning to us that we were producing a very serious gravitational disturbance. I'll show you what happens. (Draws on board.) That circle represents the earth. Out from the earth there is emanating, for the sake of simplicity, lets call it a gravitational field. We have a nuclear explosion take place at some point. A nuclear explosion means that there is a sudden change of matter to energy. In other words, we have a dMdT (mass-loss rate - Ed.) which is large, very much greater than unity. Now it is not difficult to show that if you have such a disturbance occurring in a gravitational field, there will be projected outwards a gravity wave which will be projected in the direction of the gravity field and with a velocity which is inversely proportional to the strength of the gravitational field. Therefore, if the explosion itself, if the conversion of mass to energy, lasts over a period of time which would permit the expanding material to move out say, a hundred feet this way and a hundred feet this way, we would have a region 200 feet in diameter in which mass was being converted to energy and which would be a virtual source of a gravity wave that would travel straight up, thereby producing the column that we see supporting the mushroom cloud. What we don't see is that penetrating downwards through the centre of the planet there is a similar gravity wave which comes to a focal point down here. And in this region, from approximately here on down, we have approximately the same mass all the way around so that the gravitational field in here is very low. So the velocity becomes very high and flares out this way, so that it comes out on the far side of the earth as a diverging cone. Now these things don't go away. We literally punch a hole in the field structure of the earth; we punch a little round cylindrical hole on this side and a big conical-shaped hole on the other side. They stay there for a long time. They're vortices and it takes them quite a while to dissipate. We don't know how long, but we have gone back to places such as Issoudon three months later, and we have found that the vortex has gone. Now maybe it has moved away, we believe that that is what happens because we actually caught one of them moving, or maybe it dissipates, or maybe both. But we did find one out over the North Atlantic that drifted, that was picked up first by a friend of mine who is an RCAF pilot who had the instrument with him. They located it on a reconnaissance flight just to the south and west of Iceland, and then again on a flight out about a week later. It was about half way between Iceland and Newfoundland and considerably weaker. At least that is the impression they got from the instrument indication. So apparently they do move around and I presume they do fade out. We haven't, incidentally, located any in the last year or so, I presume because we have not been exploding any bombs lately.
Q. What would be the effect on the human body?
A. That we do not know. We have had no opportunity of placing a guinea pig in the area and keeping him there for any length of time. The vortex at Issouden, when we discovered it, extended partly over the highway and out into a field. There was no accommodation for anyone even to park, other than along the shoulder of the road long enough to explore this. We just don't know.
Q. Can you explain to us why they have curtailed the explosions of the nuclear bombs?
A. I can only guess at why the nuclear explosions have been curtailed. I saw a picture that I know was never released to the public, showing a very large nuclear explosion in the Bikini series. This picture showed the enormous fireball which I think must have been well over 100 miles in diameter, and shooting out from it were what looked like solar prominences. In other words, they were great tongues of activity of some kind. Now these tongues looked to me, from the picture and the scale of the picture, at around 25-50 miles. They were quite comparable in size to the big fireball. Now my guess is that these tongues or prominences were, in fact, chain reactions taking place in the earth's atmosphere. What mechanism was involved, I can only guess. I am not a nuclear physicist. I only know that this picture was considered by those knowledgeable, to be very significant and very worrying. I think another reason, possibly, for the curtailment of the tests has been the rising public opinion that it would be highly undesirable to go any further into nuclear weapons than we have gone. Possibly we have gone too far already.
(Barely audible question about the effect on materials)
A. We believe that, as long as the elastic limit of the material is not overstressed, the effect is temporary, but if it is overstressed, the effect is permanent. Now we found a very peculiar thing. Things in the northern latitudes generally appear to be somewhat stronger than they are in the southern latitudes. We have one instrument which we took from The Pas, Manitoba, through Ottawa, Washington, D.C., and out to Oklahoma City. And since none of our instruments are calibrated in any kind of an absolute unit, simply because we don't know how to calibrate them in absolute units, they are merely scale indications. The scale goes around to 10. And we set them ordinarily about mid-scale, somewhere around five or six. At The Pas, it went up to about 7, assuming it was set at 5. When it got down to Oklahoma City it was down to 2. And when we took it back to Ottawa it came back to the 5. We had set it at 5 in Ottawa. Now that meant that there was not a permanent set in the nylon fiber, which was the weaker of the two opposing pulls. However, every time we take one of these instruments into Toronto, we find that it promptly goes from 5 down to 2. We have actually had several of the nylon fibers break when we've taken the instruments to Toronto. We came to the conclusion that Toronto was maybe good all right but it wasn't very strong (laughter). Incidentally, they have had an abnormal number of structural steel failures in Toronto when buildings have been undergoing construction. The steel has given way, bolts have given way. We believe that this is maybe a semi-permanent condition for Toronto because we find that we encounter it just as we hit the outskirts of the city, and as we proceed through the city and towards Hamilton, we lose it again about Port Credit. So this is a very large region and it seems to be permanent. I know it's been there for the four or five years now that we've been investigating.
(Barely audible question about nuclear bomb explosions.)
A. I would say that these explosions have a far more disastrous effect down in the interior of the earth than anything that we can see on the surface. I have the most serious misgivings about these atom bomb explosions.
(Barely audible question about radiation processing)
A. A personal friend of mine, an electronics engineer, has had contact with these people from outside now for a period of four years that I know of, and I believe that this contact has preceded that by several years. This contact name, the man here on earth, I cannot quote, but the man from outside, his name is Tyla, and he calls himself a garbage collector. His job he says is to go around after we have misbehaved and clean up the mess. By misbehaving, I mean setting off nuclear explosions. He gathers up this material, does something to it on board the craft, what we don't know, but it renders it reasonably inert. And then once a year or thereabouts (it takes about a year to process the material), he dumps it in some rather secluded spot. In, I think about 1947, the November or December issue of Time magazine had a picture of Tyla's craft dumping this material out over the American desert. A year later, Tyla sent a message to my friend that he was going to dump some again, that he would this time pick an opportune time when many people could witness the process, and that he would dump it somewhere near Ottawa. So shortly after the Armistice celebrations in Ottawa, everyone was buzzing around town, it was a very pleasant day, we looked up to the north-west of Ottawa and there was Tyla's little craft, an egg-shaped affair in the sky, and coming out of the tail-end of it was what looked like an almost dissipated portion of a jet trail that was dropping down. It was a white, smoky affair that was dropping down from the rear of the little craft which was set at an angle of about 30-40 degrees. Well, we watched this through binoculars (having been warned, we had these things handy), we stood out in the yard, I think about half of Ottawa was out watching it too. And the job took about 20 minutes. We stood there and watched it, the plume of dust getting lower and lower, and finally, we looked up again and Tyla's craft was gone. We didn't see him go. Maybe he took off in a hurry when he figured the job was done. Anyway, we watched the dust until it had dissipated almost to the point where we couldn't really see it anymore. But by that time it was down pretty close to the horizon. Now, knowing the size of Tyla's craft which is roughly 1000 feet long, we calculated from the field of the binoculars and other data, that he was about 50 miles away from Ottawa, and somewhere around 15-20 miles high, and just to the north-west of the city of Ottawa. Looking on the map, that region is completely and entirely uninhabited. There is no one up in that area. The area doesn't even drain into the Ottawa River. It drains into the Quoquat(?) River which goes out into the Bering Strait.
(Barely audible but had to do with the ability of UFOs to materialize and seemingly de-materialize.)
A. That is a question I find very intriguing. If you consider a point here (indicates on board) about which time is not uniformly distributed. In other words as you come out from here you have less and less time, or looking at it the other way, the tempic field is greater in here than out here. If you have a beam of light passing through this region, since there is more time in here and less time in this part this light doesn't have to go as far in a given interval as this beam of light does. So this light beam bends so the direction is this direction here, but over here it's in this direction. So what apparently happens is that the light is bent around this particular point. When you look at a saucer which has increased the tempic field in the vicinity of the saucer, you find that the light tends to approach the saucer in this fashion, go around it and out the other side. So that what little light comes directly from the saucer occupies such a very, very small portion of your field of vision that you think the saucer, if you see it at all, you think it's tiny - about the size maybe of a dime, when in reality it may be 150 ft in diameter. You are literally looking past the saucer. Now we saw one of the little monitors do exactly that trick. We had very good reason to believe that a certain conversation we were having with a friend of mine was being monitored by one of these fellows, so when we came out of the house we made a definite effort to locate it. We did. It was down in the ditch near the front of the house. As soon as we spotted it, apparently the people controlling it became aware of the fact. We saw what appeared to be just like a heat wave something like a foot in diameter. Popped out of the centre of this appeared to be a little disc abut so big, and it just took off like that into the blue yonder. I think the whole operation occurred in maybe less than two seconds. But we were looking right at it, and there were three of us, and we all saw the same thing. And knowing the trick about the field we figured that that was how it was done. Now there is one way that you can tell that a saucer is parked in a meadow, for example. If there is a background of trees, as you would walk along or drive along in a car looking out across the field, as you pass the vicinity of the saucer since the light has a little bit farther to travel during this, it would appear as though momentarily the background moved backwards. Now I have driven miles and miles past meadows looking for this very thing. I think I know what it ought to look like but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe the boys think that since I'm onto this trick, they'll do something else. (laughter)
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